The Nostalgia Conundrum
I asked this question on a message board, but it got little response in the actual direction that I was hoping it would.
I think the question may be more suitable to be targeted at a more specific audience. Specifically, readers of this blog. Yeah, I know you’re all a bunch of old UO whores. Don’t deny it.
I’ll get into Skills vs. Classes and Nostalgia in upcoming posts, but for now, I want as many answers to this question as possible:
With all of the reminiscing about UO that goes on, one wonders if you guys would play a new game with much the same design… or is the nostalgia and familiarity playing a significant part in the fun you experience with UO, or even thinking about it?
Well, would you?
I mean really would you. The immediate “YES!” because you remember UO as a great time is one thing. But taking into account games like World of Warcraft and what they offer, would you switch over long-term to a game that was built on the principles of UO, even if it was a different game? There are no hally mages, no insta hit, no precasting. It’s a new game. It’s different.
Do you put in your credit card number and venture on to a long term affair with the game, or do you go back to the massive mounds of content that is World of Warcraft (or Warhammer, or whatever)?
Are your fond memories of UO simply due to the fact that you spent your early MMO gaming days in this specific world, or do the specific core systems of this type of MMO appeal to you more than what you find in a game like WoW?
-Az
July 6th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
I must get 300 hits from bots every day.
July 7th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
BoOp bOoP BeEp!!
July 8th, 2007 at 12:48 am
I would probably give it a try, but I doubt it would live up to expectation.
July 8th, 2007 at 12:58 am
I certainly suppose that’d be a problem.
In what ways would you be looking for it to live up to expectation? How could it fail at that?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:37 am
A game would have to offer more than just skills vs. levels in commong with UO before I would be interested, but if it offered more elements from UO I would definitely give it a try.
In one way, the differences between a skills vs. class based system can be largely illusional depending on the implementation. Once the healing/anat/med changes were implemented, templates began to develop and all you were left with was classes by a different name. Even if the player has unlimited skill points (they can learn everything) they are still constrained by time and therefore cookie cutter “builds” will always emerge.
The reason that I get all misty eyed over UO doesn’t really have that much to do with the game mechanics at all, even though they were awesome. It is about equal parts Ultima as a setting and UO as an environment that made the game so thrilling to me. I’ll be 30 in a couple of months. I’ve been playing Ultima games for a very long time. RPGs have been a focal point of my life for decades and you better believe that I love me some Ultima. Aside from Dragonlance/Forgotten Realms games (SSI Gold Box) I have probably spent more time in the Ultima universe than any other. The setting itself is something that immediately strikes a chord with me. In fact, the main reason that I was bad at UO when I played in 97-98 was that for the most part I approached at as an Ultima game that you played with other people, and not Quake with swords. I was not an online gamer.
Unfortunately for any new game that is released, they can’t tap into that. That part of my attraction to UO is unique to Ultima games. What they can partially recreate was the environment that UO provided before trammel. I always found it funny that the things that I loved about UO were the exact things that the majority of players hated. Like I said, I was not especially good at UO during the tank mage days. I got pked a hell of alot more times that I managed to take down a pk, and almost never without help. I loved every minute of it. The fear that came over me when I saw “You are no longer under the protection of the guards” or the adrenaline rush when a red name would come onto the screen provided me with my most memorable gaming experiences to date. The fact that as soon as you left town you were fair game made every moment tense. I loved the fact that everything you owned could be taken from you, even though I was frequently the one getting his shit taken.
There are a few reasons why a game like this will never work again in the same way as UO, but there are things that developers can do to come close. At the time, UO was the only game in town, so you had all the RP nerds, clueless newbs and pks all thrown in together. These days, a game with that ruleset will only attract wolves because people who don’t like being killed and called faggot have other options. When you go to a UO freeshard these days, almost everyone knows the deal.
The reason that full loot in UO worked was that for the most part the items you had on your character were replacable without much effort. Most of the time, your biggest loss came in the for of regs. With the currently popular games, any kind of full loot (or partial loot like the terrible L2) doesn’t fly because of the amount of effort it takes to obtain the items. For a game to succeed with full loot, it can’t be about the items. For the system to work, your items must be replacable without too much work, and preferably through player controlled crafters.
I guess what I’m getting at here is that what I loved about the UO environment was the feeling of danger that existed because of the freedom that players had to interact with each other, coupled with a game system that moves the focus off of the gear you player has and onto the actual players themselves. It’s not about skill vs class based system as much as it is about freedom of interaction. Darkfall was supposed to deliver on these things but is actually just some cruel joke meant to torment UO players for some unknown reason. Sorry about the book
July 9th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
I’d say Darkfall suffers more from the problems you describe than anyone “waiting” for it would like to admit. It’ll be a wolves’ den and nothing more. Their population will be at least 50% PvPers, and like IPY, the strongest will dominate and push the others out (or the weaker ones will find a way to cheat their way to victory).
So we’ve got a checklist here.
1) Attract more than just wolves. In fact, do your damnedest to attract the most diverse population possible. Make a true melting pot again, by any means necessary. Socialites, Crafters, people new to MMO gaming.. families, kids, housewives. And then of course at least make sure you have some checks and balances to ensure that they aren’t wantonly slaughtered and quite, being effectively cannibalized by the wolf population - thus creating a never ending spiral toward Quake With Swords.
2) Template breakers. Skill-based systems often break down into a few templates. This is largely inevitable, but do your best to maximize the difference between players. Just don’t be too retarded and remove the idea of a skill cap all together.
3) Danger and full loot. Or, “Evoke my emotions, sire!”.
4) No PvE grinding for PvP supremacy. Items should not wholly determine, or in fact interfere much with, PvP.
5) Craft me a sword, peasant! In fact, craft one for all of these people that are lined up. In fact, just make sure the economy is player driven. Give crafters a real place in the world, and create demand for their items. Don’t pigeonhole crafting into a second rate achievement based gameplay like it is in WoW.
Elbows, I’d say you’ve touched on five very basic keys here. Keys that, as simple as they are, other games in development that fashion themselves after UO don’t quite seem to understand.
But surely these can’t be the only things that contributed to the success of UO and would need to be recreated? Anyone else?
July 10th, 2007 at 9:05 am
I need a few things for a MMORPG:
1) A community
Doesn’t have to be all that large, as long as there’s a dedicated on there.
2) Skills not levels
3) PvP based not on items, not on skills or stats, but on the skill of the player themselves.
4) A player driven economy. I’ve beat this subject into the ground for those of you that know me.
5) Property. This isn’t really a requirement but its a huge plus. I want a piece of the world that I can call mine.
If someone can do all that in a game, I don’t care if I’m doing PvP with Rainbows, I’m game.
November 24th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
Web Site Design…
I couldn’t understand some parts of this article, but it sounds interesting…