by Azaroth | July 11th, 2009
Since a classic server has to be classic, implementing intricate and overly complicated newly designed systems as a penalty for reds would likely be generally unappreciated. Mostly by the reds, actually, but even if the penalties were minor. Actually, I know it would be because I’ve been there. The penalties were slight and there was still a revolt. Funny enough, the penalties were actually WAY less serious than statloss.
A solution needs to be implemented from the getgo – because at that point it’s not a bombshell on anyone’s head. You either accept the system when you choose the playstyle or you don’t play. Since the system probably needs to be classic and fit the timeline, we talk about statloss.
I think it’s an awful system. I remember when it was patched in and how pissed off I was. I actually think it was probably designed backward, like most things seems to be. The meaning of that statement being that there was an objective on a board at some point during a design meeting, various roads were paved artificially to meet that objective instead of addressing the problem a bit more organically.
Shorter version: It’s contrived, artificial, and somewhat out of place. In my opinion.
I consider that backward, although I understand it because it seems logical and easier to do. Basically, you’ve got a goal accomplished. A penalty for murderers that compounds and either harms their characters requiring time and resources to get back on the field, or a longer time out that requires nothing but time. I’d say there are some deeper psychological motivations in the system, but I’d be going out on a limb being that I wasn’t at the meeting. I was probably in Shame or at Britain Bank on Atlantic at the time thinking of how to get my next viking sword of power, actually.
So, two solutions. Let’s go through a quick rundown of pros and cons (very quick, since this isn’t about my opinions):
No Stat Loss
Pros
- Killer-types love the idea
- Some positive spin/hype from killer types (who are often a vocal minority)
- As such, additional players
- Another shot at pure player justice! (just kidding – that’s like expecting an explosion by staring really hard at an atom)
- IPY was statloss-free, continuity and expectationsCons
- Additional players attracted are the “wrong type”, or the type that needs balancing against
- Shot in the foot from the getgo, murderers run free
- As such, newbies and innocent players driven away and,
- Newbies and innocent players have a harder time gaining a foothold – the last thing you need in UO
- IPY was statloss-free – some chances for negative publicity from those who would be upsetStatloss
Pros
- A known and generally accepted penalty
- Murdering curbed but still allowed
- Murdering curbed by background punishments enacted by other players (which I like — even though it’s indirectly and sortofnotreally)
- Less murdering means an easier time in general for newer players
- Enables meaningful, but assisted, player justice of some sort (is there any other kind?)Cons
- Chances of murderers simply quitting after taking statloss (could be listed under “Pros”, RDRR)
- Potential negative word of mouth from hardcore Killer-types
- Restrictive system design… negative instead of positive or enabling
- Hell, a generally flawed design to start with
- Can be seen as both too harsh and not harsh enough, depending on the situation and the population makeup of the server
There you have it. I’ll stay far away from my thoughts on the psychology of statloss, because I don’t think that’s what this conversation should be about. It should be a conversation about statloss vs. no statloss from the view of actual players and their desires for the gameplay experience and the server in general.
So kick it off, someone. Statloss – Yea or nay?
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If you care to maintain a population not entirely composed of murderers, then you need to discourage rampant slaughter.
Stat loss is so obviously imperfect that I would only implement it if there were no other solution.
I suppose it depends on what sort of server you want to run, doesn’t it?
For example, if you want a full-on, competitive PvP server, you’re going to be limiting the player base by implementing an annoying game play mechanic.
If you’re going for a neutral server where players can live in “harmony”, then implementing either stat loss or an alternative, more creative mechanic to punish murderers would be required. I would opt for the latter; stat loss feels like a really flawed gimmick, like experience loss in other MMO’s.
In summary: Nay.
I think the main difference between the two is that one will inevitably burn to the ground, while the other has at least some chance of living for a while.
It’d be hard to have bitched about certain things and then put up another server just to repeat the exact same mistakes. In fact, I think that’s near the definition of insanity.
One of the problems with statloss is, however, that it ends up punishing people without really tangibly benefiting the people who got screwed over four hundred times in a row. I got PKed endlessly in Brit GY with my 50 swordsmanship/50 camping newbie and quit – it really doesn’t do me much good that PkKillZAssRapeUDooD took statloss a month later.
But, it’s the era accurate solution. An interesting conversation I had with someone went something like this:
“Well, I was thinking of doing this, this and this and then this..”
“Yeah but… I think I’d be hoping that a classic experience would be…. … classic… … right?”
And that person had a strong point. Even if it was nonsensical BEYOND that point – it’s still a good point.
Poplicola – tell me more about UltimaXNA?
If you run a custom shard, you’re always going to be hampered in what you can do by the limitations of the legacy client. UltimaXNA allows you get around those limitations.
The client is barely a month old and it already supports combat (and a hundred other features less easily summed up). It’s not yet usable as a primary client, but I see it being feature complete sooner rather than later.
Keep me updated. It sounds like something I’d potentially be quite interested in.
In your excellent breakdown of the pros and cons of statloss, you touched on what I believe is the root issue of the problem: an established killer population deters new players from joining.
Fel/Tram is an imperfect solution to this problem, but the idea of separating killers from new players until the new players can defend themselves has real merit. Here’s another idea in the same vein:
There are two landmasses. New players start on one continent, which is focused on PvE leveling. On the second continent, which you can enter or leave at any time with no or little restrictions, there is factional PvP warfare, more dungeons, housing, and other incentives to leave the safe confines of the first continent behind.
There is a lot to do on the first continent, and certainly you could spend your entire life playing in the sandbox without realizing how much fun you could have on the second continent. You can’t blame someone for not trying something new, especially if they’re afraid of it. So you give players a chance to explore PvP in a special safe zone.
The two continents are connected by a hub city which encourages mingling between the populations of the two continents. Here you’ll find safe PvP content like arenas and dueling pits, where you won’t lose your shirt if you die but which might whet your appetite for PvP. People are talking about what’s going on with the factional warfare, town criers relate the successes of dungeon crawls of the most dangerous variety.
The second continent isn’t for everyone. Some people will never bother. But I suspect that even those otherwise unshakably opposed to PvP will want to give PvP a try, especially since they can return to safety at any time.
Perhaps most importantly, no one is being pk’ed a heartbeat after logging in.
maybe instead of statloss, 1 murder = X hours unable to be resurected?
One year late, but still:
After a set number of kills in a set ammount of time put a bounty on the red head (wits?! no.) that goes up with the murder count.
Then put range-limited spawn points inside dungeons and other pk-heavy areas that spawn blue “bounty hunter” npcs with varying combat skills. Some really nasty that spawn by themselves, some weaker that spawn in groups. Make them respawn often and make them attack reds giving priority to the highest murder count.
Also, put a npc in every town that will give the bounty money for players who sell them the red’s severed head.