by Azaroth | March 26th, 2010
Consider wars as they existed traditionally in UO for a moment. O/C if you want, and Factions if you have experience there.
What’s your general opinion? What would you change, what would you add.. what do you hate?
What do you feel would be a great “war” system in UO? How should it work? Why would it be great? Who would it appeal to, and why? For how long?
How can you make it appeal to both hardcore gamers and more casual gamers? What about newer players? Should they be able to get involved?
I’d love to hear your perspective on this. If you could make some requests before an IPY system was set in stone, what would they be?
Edit: By default, this has now become the place to discuss Razor and EUO, I think.
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All I know is, a lot of refinement has occured since UO broke out. It pioneered things, and, as is the nature of something involving creativity and money, this MMO rollercoaster has been, in all its iterations, an unbridled, unafraid, and positively naïve experiment that has provided us (as players [and the MMO devs]) with an endless plethora of viable playstyles. As a result, since then, we (and again, devs) have been carefully excavating what was appreciated, what was left undeveloped or raw, what was left unconsidered, what has been refined and, inevitably, unintended problems of varying severity. Now we, as gamers AND DEVS (well more like you, Az) face a monumental task involving carefully weighing difficult decisions and managing to overcome the challenges that will rise from either choice – in or out, 3rd party apps or the lack of will have a multitude of effects, some big some small, some direct some indirect, some immediately and some down the line. All I’m saying is, whether they’re in or out, whether you dislike or appreciate, the decision should be carefully weighted and considered. It is one of THE tone setters for this endeavor. Don’t let this be an ambiguous thing left in the corner; if it’s in, place sufficient bulwarks to stymie the top-end abuse it could lead to… if it’s out, make sure it’s out and not slinking around in the shadows like Steroids in baseball BTW the Jays suck ass, only retards would get rid of Halliday even if they can’t get past Yanx and Sox in their division. Simple economics, he was half the reason to go a Jays game (assuming he was starting said day).
I’m certainly someone who is generally against the use of third-party apps like Razor. I understand why those people who are hardcore PvP love the application, because it speeds up fights and streamlines the process. But this brings me to a question and maybe an idea for a new Poll:
What kind of player are you? 3 options…
1. Your going be here mainly for PvP and Wars?
2. You just want to relax, socialise, buy property, make money etc?
3. You want a server with a blend of PvE/PvP/Social all on an even basis?
It’s pretty important to identify what players your aiming the server at before making important decisions on the mechanics. Using Razor for example, supporting Razor or encouraging it’s use would attract those who are hardcore PvP players but likely put off people who arn’t hardcore and simply what to relive a Classic UO server with a decent population again.
I would say it’s sheep the server will need and Sheep that are going to be the hardest to attract to the server. I’d guess that 90% of the people posting on here are wolves (I might be wrong). But on a server with just wolves and Razor encouraged, your left with a server like Hybrid (Deathmatch arena) imho which is certainly not what I’m looking for.
Me and a lot of players out there are looking for that Classic UO world back again, not necessarly a clone, but an active, thriving server where PvE, crafting and PvP are all feasable alternatives to the average player (without having to be a 5 times PvP tournament winner from Hybrid). End of the day, if you want fast paced PVP these days in games you can just load up WOW, WAR, Guild Wars, Modern Warfare, Bad Company 2 the list goes on… If your looking for an authentic virtual world, with politics, an in-depth & rewarding crafting system; skills/character development, social mechanics with player housing & boats, a Player driven economy and content ; There’s just nothing out there even now after 13 years that can compete with Ultima Online of old.
So basically in a nutshell, what i’m saying is UO is more then just PvP. ALOT more. And although I think most who play it now do so just for PvP, if you want the server to be different to all the other run of the mill shards out there, PvP should not dictate all your mechanics and policies. Saying Razor is good because it makes PvP more enjoyable, doesn’t mean everyone will agree it’s a good idea because it has a downside too.
Not everyone will PVP to a level where scripts/macro’s or even hotkeys are something they will entertain or be arsed with. You could argue that thats their problem, but it’s a fact and it will put people off if they have to do it to be able to compete.
You likely can’t stop all third party apps like Razor anyway, but the point is the message the server policy sends out is important. If the server openly endorses the use of apps like Razor it’s ultimatly gonna make even more people use it and I think that’s unwise if you want non-hardcore pvp’ers (Sheep/carebears) to be on IPY.
Nihilus, I agree with you that a server should not be crafted based on the needs of the pvper. In fact for the real health of a server community, the needs of the “sheep” are much more important, as they are the bulk of the UO community. Also, it’s not entirely accurate to assume that all pvpers are not also a part of other aspects of the game.
To answer your poll questions, I am all three of those things and more in UO. There is barely anything in UO that I don’t sometimes or often enjoy doing. I like to have a vendor, farm goldz, bank sit, do tournaments, kill oranges, rare collect, roleplay, etc.. As someone who supports the use of Razor I don’t see how it’s a one sided ordeal. I think that your opinion that Razor gives pvpers an advantage that will affect non-pvpers in some negative way is inaccurate. Other than the basics; potion macros, use once agent for para pouches, things like this that you cannot get through your UO client (that people have been using since the beginning of time) what will you actually notice from Razor? Other than the obvious answer “people using efficient macros to build their skills at WBB”. Razor doesn’t = script/automated pvp as some seem to portray themselves to believe. There are very few script/automated type macros that people use (that I know of) through razor, and they really don’t offer much of an advantage over yee of little macros. People can set up macros to cast heal/drink pots/pop pouches/ whatever, but as I’ve said before I don’t believe these are any better than hitting the macro manually. Razor is all about offering convenience that cators to ones personal preference. And I think that it works in a way that doesn’t negatively affect those who choose not to use it. Unless you’re someone who doesn’t use potion/pouch macros in which case as you said in your post, “thats your problem” because really these macros ARE a part of the old school UO experience to many if not most of us. I too played UO without UOA at first, going back to UO without UOA is like going back to a 56k modem, it’s not a fun booster and it’s not beneficial.
Most of the features in razor I don’t even use. I have guildmates that use restock agent to fully equip their characters. This is an example of something offered through razor that is convenient and doesn’t affect anyone else negatively, it simlpy makes UO less tedious for the person that chooses to use it.
I don’t mean to sound like a Razor commercial over and over, it’s just that as someone who uses Razor regularly for pvp and beyond I don’t understand the demonization of the program that some people seem to harbor. Like I said before, if it were possible to remove all 3rd party programs from a server then I honestly wouldn’t have a problem with that. But it’s not, and Razor is the only reasonable UOAssist type program that I know of.
I’m sorry if you explained what you meant well in the post, because I didn’t read the rest of it after I read your three options.
The reason why I didn’t is because your three options are not at all distinct from each other. Individual playstyle, say, I’m going to play to PvP, is not a condradiction of wanting a balance of all playstyles when you look at the server as a whole.
Lets say I want to choose option one because I’m going to play to PvP.. Then I see option three, and am like, “well, I’m personally going to play for pvp, but there should be a balance and appeal to everyone.”
Which one would I pick then?
not only that, but what effect do 3rd party applications used for targetting, streamlining functions, generally, anything that only applies to pvp in UO have to do other playstyles that don’t include pvp?
I fail to see the relevance of a server wide poll regarding which players are doing what, when the third party programs or lack thereof don’t have an impact on everyone.
If you get time, try and read my full post… I use paragraphs to avoid Wall of text syndrome though on this message board, I know it helps little.
The 3 questions could maybe be phrased better but they ARE different. Weighing up percentage of time spent playing Ultima Online on IPY, choose which one would be most applicable to you in reality:
1. PVP e.g 75%+ PVP,
2. PVE and Crafting e.g 45% PVE, 45% Crafting, 10% PVP.
3. An even mix e.g, 33% PvP 33% PvE 33% Crafting.
I’m not asking exclusively what things you will or will not do, simply what percentage of your time played would roughly be allocated to each.
Sheep would pick option 2 and I believe that it will be them that will decide if the server is successful. A UO server without sheep is doomed to fail by its very nature.
My argument against Razor was that it makes the server less Sheep friendly that is all. I understand that yes it CAN be used modestly and to improve specific aspects, but as long as it still leaves room to be abused and effectively make PKíng Sheep even easier then it would be normally then it is going to put off a lot of the Sheep players. I don’t use Sheep as a dorogatory word btw, infact the Sheep players being the Crafting, Social, Roleplaying and PvE community as well as the Prey for PKérs are the heart and soul of UO.
Two questions: What are the abuses that you are referring to? How does Razor make pking easier?
One more thing, I do see a problem with the above suggested poll. but not due to the questions, more to do with the fact that people simply won’t give it enough thought. Everyone as it stands now would probably pick option 3. An even mix of everything. So as to not rule themselves out, but if you really think about; in reality this would not be the case. Players are generally polarised regarding PVP, and players generally like to specialise in something i.e become the servers best blacksmith or the most feared PK…so option 3 in reality when server went live would not be as popular as a Poll here might initially reveal. I’d bet money on it.